- Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:13 pm
#826159
Got back a few hours ago from ITG.
The results are nothing short of fantastic. I'll cut the a load of wotsit and get straight to the numbers:
For reference my car is standard apart from:
Hondata Intake manifold gasket + Throttle body coolant bypass + Groundwires.
I gutted my stock airbox as per instructions by Hondata and ITG fitted a brand new paper filter in there for the tests.
I was running on Sainsbury's 95RON Unleaded.
Conditions were very hot but that didn't matter as the dyno was a Dynojet and atmospheric conditions are taken into account. I believe this is the first dynojet in the country, it is only 3 months old. It also has the information for a/f ratios but i'll talk about that later.
So with those little mods my car was tested 3 times and pulled an average of around (all figures are at the wheels and SAE corrected):
161bhp
122lb/ft
(there was one run where we think the dyno threw a wobbler as there is a massive spike in torque which was not apparaent in later runs)
We swapped the boxes over and got an average out of 5 runs:
175bhp
128lb/ft
The graphs show I gained around 10lb/ft at 3500rpm. There are increases at every point on the graph. In vtec there is a massive difference in both torque and power. From around 6500rpm all the way to the limiter the standard cars torque tails off slightly whereas the ITG fitted car maintains a stable torque curve. I'd say theres 8-9lb/ft increase in VTEC. Power just climbs and climbs til the limiter kicks in. On the standard car the power tended to level out at 7000rpm.
Now here is where things get interesting. Stuart noticed I was quite low on fuel and suggested we take a trip to shell for a full tank of optimax. The dyno operator was convinced this would make a big difference but in my mind I was like yeah mate whatever optimax does not add power.
After we came back we went straight back on the dyno and started more runs. Results were very very similar. Maybe a very small increase in the numbers but nothing significant. I already told stuart the fuel wouldn't make a difference and he told me to shut up as i got a full tank for nothing
The dyno operator was confused (laugh) and suggested we reset the ECU and give the car a mini break of 10mins. So we disconnected the battery and I went to play with the dyno operators dog. Cute dog but bloody stupid.
Anyway 10mins later we got back to business...
182bhp
132lb/ft
Stuart and I looked at each other in disbelief... I thought it was a freak thing so stuart ran the car straight after again.
181bhp
132lb/ft
Err.. and again..
No change in numbers...
I couldn't f-ing believe it. Was it the optimax? The reset ECU? The cooler engine? I would like to think its a combination of all those. Hell i didn't give a toss I just made 20bhp and 10lb/ft increase over my baseline at the wheels.
If we use 18% tranny loses my car baseline made around
190bhp
145lb/ft
at the fly.
So a little less power then standard but torque was bang on book figures. With the airbox on, the optimax, the ecu reset we got:
214bhp
156lb/ft.
That is a stunning result...
ITG will not use the optimax/ecu reset figures in their comparison. They will use the 95ron with airbox on instead being the non-cheating outfit that they are.
So right how does it look? F-ing gorgeous. I will upload pics tomorrow. Its also 2.5kg lighter over the stock box. Me and Andy (Stuarts right hand man) got the scales out. It fits like a damn glove I am not joking when Andy took about 5 minutes flat to swap the airboxes. And theres no gearbox linkage problems like there is on the Icebox or imo useless heatshields to fit like on the gruppem.
Now...
GruppeM? I really can't see how that system can give alot better figures. If you want to spend an extra £150, drill holes in your scutter panel and take it off everytime you want to open the bonnet then go ahead.
You see I learned something today, the cold air pick up point is important yes but thats just one of a few vital elements in a good CAI. The size of the filter, the size of airbox even the length of tubing will all affect how an airbox operates.
I won't even mention the Mugen or Icebox because I don't think they are good enough. I really wish I still had my GruppeM so we could have done a direct comparison and you know I would have bet my house that the ITG would have killed it. Doug from Hondata has mentioned in one of his seminars that he has still yet to find a good sealed box CAI that he truely rates and yes he did see the gruppem/mugen/icebox. I think I better send him an email...
20bhp and 10lb/ft at the wheel increases. Thats madness. Graphs will be on the ITG website soon.
Oh one more thing... a/f ratios. In VTEC as stock the car runs stupidly rich. I think it was something like 11.0-11.5. The ITG leaned that one out quite well.
2 Years... has it been worth the wait? Make your own minds up on that one...
The results are nothing short of fantastic. I'll cut the a load of wotsit and get straight to the numbers:
For reference my car is standard apart from:
Hondata Intake manifold gasket + Throttle body coolant bypass + Groundwires.
I gutted my stock airbox as per instructions by Hondata and ITG fitted a brand new paper filter in there for the tests.
I was running on Sainsbury's 95RON Unleaded.
Conditions were very hot but that didn't matter as the dyno was a Dynojet and atmospheric conditions are taken into account. I believe this is the first dynojet in the country, it is only 3 months old. It also has the information for a/f ratios but i'll talk about that later.
So with those little mods my car was tested 3 times and pulled an average of around (all figures are at the wheels and SAE corrected):
161bhp
122lb/ft
(there was one run where we think the dyno threw a wobbler as there is a massive spike in torque which was not apparaent in later runs)
We swapped the boxes over and got an average out of 5 runs:
175bhp
128lb/ft
The graphs show I gained around 10lb/ft at 3500rpm. There are increases at every point on the graph. In vtec there is a massive difference in both torque and power. From around 6500rpm all the way to the limiter the standard cars torque tails off slightly whereas the ITG fitted car maintains a stable torque curve. I'd say theres 8-9lb/ft increase in VTEC. Power just climbs and climbs til the limiter kicks in. On the standard car the power tended to level out at 7000rpm.
Now here is where things get interesting. Stuart noticed I was quite low on fuel and suggested we take a trip to shell for a full tank of optimax. The dyno operator was convinced this would make a big difference but in my mind I was like yeah mate whatever optimax does not add power.
After we came back we went straight back on the dyno and started more runs. Results were very very similar. Maybe a very small increase in the numbers but nothing significant. I already told stuart the fuel wouldn't make a difference and he told me to shut up as i got a full tank for nothing
The dyno operator was confused (laugh) and suggested we reset the ECU and give the car a mini break of 10mins. So we disconnected the battery and I went to play with the dyno operators dog. Cute dog but bloody stupid.
Anyway 10mins later we got back to business...
182bhp
132lb/ft
Stuart and I looked at each other in disbelief... I thought it was a freak thing so stuart ran the car straight after again.
181bhp
132lb/ft
Err.. and again..
No change in numbers...
I couldn't f-ing believe it. Was it the optimax? The reset ECU? The cooler engine? I would like to think its a combination of all those. Hell i didn't give a toss I just made 20bhp and 10lb/ft increase over my baseline at the wheels.
If we use 18% tranny loses my car baseline made around
190bhp
145lb/ft
at the fly.
So a little less power then standard but torque was bang on book figures. With the airbox on, the optimax, the ecu reset we got:
214bhp
156lb/ft.
That is a stunning result...
ITG will not use the optimax/ecu reset figures in their comparison. They will use the 95ron with airbox on instead being the non-cheating outfit that they are.
So right how does it look? F-ing gorgeous. I will upload pics tomorrow. Its also 2.5kg lighter over the stock box. Me and Andy (Stuarts right hand man) got the scales out. It fits like a damn glove I am not joking when Andy took about 5 minutes flat to swap the airboxes. And theres no gearbox linkage problems like there is on the Icebox or imo useless heatshields to fit like on the gruppem.
Now...
GruppeM? I really can't see how that system can give alot better figures. If you want to spend an extra £150, drill holes in your scutter panel and take it off everytime you want to open the bonnet then go ahead.
You see I learned something today, the cold air pick up point is important yes but thats just one of a few vital elements in a good CAI. The size of the filter, the size of airbox even the length of tubing will all affect how an airbox operates.
I won't even mention the Mugen or Icebox because I don't think they are good enough. I really wish I still had my GruppeM so we could have done a direct comparison and you know I would have bet my house that the ITG would have killed it. Doug from Hondata has mentioned in one of his seminars that he has still yet to find a good sealed box CAI that he truely rates and yes he did see the gruppem/mugen/icebox. I think I better send him an email...
20bhp and 10lb/ft at the wheel increases. Thats madness. Graphs will be on the ITG website soon.
Oh one more thing... a/f ratios. In VTEC as stock the car runs stupidly rich. I think it was something like 11.0-11.5. The ITG leaned that one out quite well.
2 Years... has it been worth the wait? Make your own minds up on that one...
Last edited by Paul-CTR on Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:42 am, edited 9 times in total.
No longer shabby!
on the road as the ITG filter will get a more constant supply of cold air. So in essence the ITG suffers from the same thing as the GruppeM, with respect to not being able to see its full potential on the dyno, yet you don't see them complain about dyno runs.
