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[mc36155]

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

that wasnt the intended point of that statement.

[Gravy]

Pray, enlighten, do!

[EvoStu]

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

Neither does a hybrid?

[sjw]

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

Actually...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... miles.html

[Gravy]

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

Actually...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... miles.html

Orly?!?
Sounds like a load of "lamb shank" to me, but I could be wrong ... it's not like the Kiwis have a motive for telling fibs ...

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

Neither does a hybrid?

:scratch: I was sure I had seen advertising blurb saying the Prius is teh saviour of teh environment and stuff ...

[EvoStu]

:scratch: I was sure I had seen advertising blurb saying the Prius is teh saviour of teh environment and stuff ...

That advertising blurb would be Mr Clarkson extracting the urine. Toyota & Honda make no claims about saving the environment, they merely state the cars cut emissions (which they do to some extent).

On the flip side you could of course argue that the batteries take resources to make them which are harmful etc, but as someone points out, how many batteries are in our day to day items such as phones, watches, ipods, etc.

[Gravy]

Toyota & Honda make no claims about saving the environment, they merely state the cars cut emissions (which they do to some extent).

P0ppyc0ck!

My Jaguar 1995 XJR had a smaller carbon footprint per mile, than a Prius or whatever the honda thing is called, on account of it a. being 15 years old and b. running on LPG which is the cleanest of all fuels for the internal combustion engine.

And whilst I'm in the mood for a rant, [sleeping fail]
The government have a fooking nerve, imo ... telling us on one hand that we all have to reduce emissions with those patronising and ill-conceived adverts about doing 5 miles less per week, and then when the money gets tight, invoking a scrappage scheme to get us to buy new cars to replace our older [and hence with a smaller footprint] ones.

But hold on ... it's OK isn't it ... 'cos the lithium for the batteries comes from mines in deepest darkest South America, which has no industry to speak of, so they have loads of teh carbons to use up in the global trading scheme.

sazznfazznrazzn!! :bad-words:

[EvoStu]

Again.......they make no claims about their cars "saving" the environment. It is all about cutting emissions, and unfortunately its down to the EU that we are held by the throat on the levels of emission cuts. Bunch of sheisters the lot of 'em!

[Ali]

If specifically advertising your cars as having low emissions isn't environmentalism, then what is? Because if Honda and Toyota accept these cars are no better for the environment, then they are ill conceived, cynical marketing exercises.

As for the comment about mining. The majority of parts in cars are mined from readily available mineral sources found in concentrated regions and requiring relatively small mining enterprises for very large amounts of raw ore. Iron is the 4th most abundant element on Earth and aluminium THE most abundant metallic element in the Earth's crust, after all. Lithium, Nickel and Cadmium are far rarer and less concentrated elements requiring massively greater destruction of the surface of the planet for much smaller amounts.Lithium actually involves greater expendature of energy to retrieve than it can ever hope to release in a battery as it's never found in a pure state, only in compounds that require splitting, and it only occurs at an average occurence in rock of 50ppm. Nickel is only abundant in the Earth's core and is almost as rare to find on the surface as Lithium, hence the gigantic strip mines required to reclaim them.

And we all know that the plastics involved in cars are oil based so don't require mining, just drilling.

So it's a very fair point, IMO, that encouraging the mining of rare and widespread scattered elements is far more damaging to the environment than any theoretical benefit these hybrids will ever offer.

[EvoStu]

Ali you could argue that the use of catalytic converters has added to this issue and they've been around for ages. The materials that make up the content of just a single unit are ridiculous and the extraction of the required materials is highly damaging. If you take most things to the n'th degree (which you do sometimes) you would find fault in everything.

Your car kills baby polar bears so shut it!

[sjw]

New Zealand lamb doesn't market itself as being the saviour of teh polar bears though, does it?

Actually...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... miles.html

Orly?!?
Sounds like a load of "lamb shank" to me, but I could be wrong ... it's not like the Kiwis have a motive for telling fibs ...

Basically, they have massive farms with negligible inputs of fertiliser and animal feed compared to what we have in the UK. Much of what electricity they do use is hydro-generated. A Kiwi university did the maths last year or the year before and concluded that even including the fuel used to ship it to the other side of the world, it had a smaller carbon footprint than UK lamb.

Not that this stops me preferring local lamb :drooling:

[Gravy]

That's fascinating mate. Thanks! :thumbup:

I never would have guessed that our lambs are grown in fertilizer and animal feed, under electric lights.

Hydroponic lamb ... whatever next, one wonders.

One also wonders what those fluffy white things who spend all of their lives in fields eating grass are :scratch:

[Papillon]

sazznfazznrazzn!! :bad-words:

It worries me that I know exactly what that means, where it comes from and said it in my head as I read it.

[Gravy]

Medal! Medal! ... hshi hshi hshi hshi hshi!!

not sure how to spell the sniggering bit, but I sure you got that as well

[Ali]

Ali you could argue that the use of catalytic converters has added to this issue and they've been around for ages. The materials that make up the content of just a single unit are ridiculous and the extraction of the required materials is highly damaging. If you take most things to the n'th degree (which you do sometimes) you would find fault in everything.

Your car kills baby polar bears so shut it!

But I agree about catalysts being pointless and wateful. One of our clients is a retired automotive engineer and he was involved in the consultation in the late 80s about the legal enforcement on the use of catalysts which he was very much against, as were all his fellow engineers. They tried their damnedest to have the government invest into ultra-lean burn technology instead which would have made life considerably better for all of us. The problem we have now is that ultra lean burn is impossible because it would destroy catalysts yet catalysts are forcing car companies to produce cars with overly rich fueling and poorer emissions, as well as mpg, than would have been the case with lean burn. The rejection of lean burn was political, not engineering led, and mainly because European car companies were so far behind Japan with the technology that legislators feared they would have handed Honda, Toyota et al a huge advantage. Sad really.

[EvoStu]

Ali you could argue that the use of catalytic converters has added to this issue and they've been around for ages. The materials that make up the content of just a single unit are ridiculous and the extraction of the required materials is highly damaging. If you take most things to the n'th degree (which you do sometimes) you would find fault in everything.

Your car kills baby polar bears so shut it!

But I agree about catalysts being pointless and wateful. One of our clients is a retired automotive engineer and he was involved in the consultation in the late 80s about the legal enforcement on the use of catalysts which he was very much against, as were all his fellow engineers. They tried their damnedest to have the government invest into ultra-lean burn technology instead which would have made life considerably better for all of us. The problem we have now is that ultra lean burn is impossible because it would destroy catalysts yet catalysts are forcing car companies to produce cars with overly rich fueling and poorer emissions, as well as mpg, than would have been the case with lean burn. The rejection of lean burn was political, not engineering led, and mainly because European car companies were so far behind Japan with the technology that legislators feared they would have handed Honda, Toyota et al a huge advantage. Sad really.

And your car still kills baby polar bears so shut it!

[Papillon]

Polar bear populations are rising. Just thought I'd mention it.

[smartie]

Polar bear populations are rising. Just thought I'd mention it.

Even with all the ones Ali is killing? :scratch:

[Papillon]

Polar bear populations are rising. Just thought I'd mention it.

Even with all the ones Ali is killing? :scratch:

Even with all the greenhouse gases that Al Gore is pumping out.

[sjw]

One also wonders what those fluffy white things who spend all of their lives in fields eating grass are :scratch:

Sheep often get supplementary feeding - "sheep nuts".

Farmers sometimes use artificial fertilisers on grazing land - this makes the grass grow faster, providing more food for the sheep.

Sheep aren't usually treated to electric heating and lighting, but farm buildings, slaughterhouses, offices and the rest of the infrastructure needed to support a farming industry are.