The largest Civic Type R club forum

[Papillon]

That's just wrong. Even in 1987 that was wrong.

[Gravy]

Pah, 1987, I'll have you know.

Are you the one at the back with the REO Speedwagon-esque poodle perm?

[Ali]

That's just wrong. Even in 1987 that was wrong.

Sadly, not:









I could go on...

[Nick]

^^^ Oh good lord

[Papillon]

Yes, I know it happened, I do remember! I'm just saying it was wrong, even then. Please tell me you didn't have the hairspray perm yourself?

[Ali]

Not quite........

[Papillon]

Not quite........

Come on, pics!!!

[Gravy]

Not quite........

Come on, pics!!!

... or GTFO

[J]

Not quite........

Come on, pics!!!

... or GTFO

Hell yes.

[Papillon]

Not quite........

Come on, pics!!!

... or GTFO

Hell yes.

And given it was more than 20 years ago, we waive the shoe on head stipulation. Can't say fairer than that.

[Ali]

I don't think there are any, not that I own, anyway! Thank goodness!

[sjw]

At the end of the day all cars in Japan are limited to 112mph anyway so having something stupendously quick is irrelevant over there. Add to that the fact that most major Japanese cities are hell holes of traffic and congestion and it doesn't add to upto much.

That's a bit unconvincing - how often do you go over 112mph in the UK? Very few of Evo's peak speeds for Bedford are over that. The urban areas of Japan may be densely populated, but take a look at the place on Google maps, huge areas are not built up at all. Anyway, look at the number of high performance cars tooling around central London, you're much more likely to see an F430 or 911 GT3 RS tooling round Canary Wharfe than tearing up the Evo Triangle.

Exactly so why the need for massive performance cars then? Pub talk? Welcome to the dawn of the hybrid.

Top speed is largely irrelevant, it's just a side effect of power, gearing and aerodynamics. Power to weight ratio, handling and ideally a great soundtrack are what a driver's car needs. In Evo's hands, a Ferrari California doesn't quite break 112mph, but that doesn't mean a CRZ would be just as much fun to punt around the track. For cars aimed at people who aren't into driving, I agree with you, it doesn't matter - that's where current hybrids fit in. Transport appliances. But I couldn't care less about such cars.

[sjw]

but the way forward for performance cars is simplification and lightness IMO.

Though the reality is that all cars have been getting progressively heavier over the last 20 years because of the safety and other legislation.

The tide does appear to be turning, with several current models lighter than the cars they replaced. Still porky, but less so.

[EvoStu]

The tide does appear to be turning, with several current models lighter than the cars they replaced. Still porky, but less so.

Which ones though mate? I mean in terms of the interesting cars which are affordable to the masses.

[Ali]

The entire Mazda range has lost weight this generation (the 3 less than the 2 and 6) and Alfa claim to have paired 100kg off the Giulietta's platform compared to the smaller 147. Isn't the Megane lighter than the previous gen as well? And the Impreza is, though that's probably because they chopped the tail end off....

Not hybrid related, but more regarding the plug in EVs, there's an interesting article in this week's New Scientist about how the energy demands of these much touted short range EVs will place a massive strain on the national grid and result in the necessity to do a massively expensive overhaul and fund the building of more power stations. Surely these will completely negate any CO2 savings? Or is it just a case of "not in my backyard" for the smug owners?

[EvoStu]

The entire Mazda range has lost weight this generation (the 3 less than the 2 and 6) and Alfa claim to have paired 100kg off the Giulietta's platform compared to the smaller 147. Isn't the Megane lighter than the previous gen as well? And the Impreza is, though that's probably because they chopped the tail end off....

Not hybrid related, but more regarding the plug in EVs, there's an interesting article in this week's New Scientist about how the energy demands of these much touted short range EVs will place a massive strain on the national grid and result in the necessity to do a massively expensive overhaul and fund the building of more power stations. Surely these will completely negate any CO2 savings? Or is it just a case of "not in my backyard" for the smug owners?

New Megane is heavier, as is the Clio. The Mazda 3 couldn't get much heavier to be fair coming in at 1485kg, although the new one isn't what you could term to be light on its feet at 1460 kg.

The new Alfa may well be lighter and look infinitely better but its still an Alfa and I could never part with my hard earned £'s on one regardless of how stunning it is to look at.

Have you seen Porsches announcement on the new 918? They reckon its going to produce less than 100g of CO2.
And its not a pipe dream its already been tested in a road going version.
http://www.porsche.com/uk/aboutporsche/ ... 2010-03-02

[sjw]

The tide does appear to be turning, with several current models lighter than the cars they replaced. Still porky, but less so.

Which ones though mate? I mean in terms of the interesting cars which are affordable to the masses.

Not many of those out lately, now that so many mass market manufacturers have pulled out of the game, though the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z. I meant cars in general, though - the need to cut CO2 figures is beginning to curtail ever increasing weight and to drive the weights back down. Mazda are the most obvious example, claiming that the latest Mazda 2 is 100kg lighter than the previous model. Even those recent cars which have increased in weight in the latest iteration have done so by less than in the past. Weights might just be reaching their peak, I reckon.

It isn't difficult to drive weights down while retaining space and crash performance, it's purely a matter of cost. Once it becomes both a legislative necessity and a customer priority (as is now beginning to be the case) it will happen.

[EvoStu]

The tide does appear to be turning, with several current models lighter than the cars they replaced. Still porky, but less so.

Which ones though mate? I mean in terms of the interesting cars which are affordable to the masses.

Not many of those out lately, now that so many mass market manufacturers have pulled out of the game, though the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z. I meant cars in general, though - the need to cut CO2 figures is beginning to curtail ever increasing weight and to drive the weights back down. Mazda are the most obvious example, claiming that the latest Mazda 2 is 100kg lighter than the previous model. Even those recent cars which have increased in weight in the latest iteration have done so by less than in the past. Weights might just be reaching their peak, I reckon.

It isn't difficult to drive weights down while retaining space and crash performance, it's purely a matter of cost. Once it becomes both a legislative necessity and a customer priority (as is now beginning to be the case) it will happen.

Problem is the cost of materials used to lighten cars usually means the end product is more expensive. On one hand they giveth and with the other they take'th away. As we've seen in Autocar when they've weighed and tested cars, claims on both emissions and weights are sometimes far from correct. Its all arse!

[sjw]

Oh absolutely - the cost is the only reason it hasn't happened already. Consumers didn't value lightness and wouldn't swallow a premium for it. Increasing CO2 based taxation and fuel costs change the game - the big improvements in fuel efficiency (on paper at least) that we've seen over recent years have been driven by the same agenda, the manufacturers don't do it unless pushed. That's all for the good, it's just a shame that a contraction of choice occurs at the same time. More efficient engine, good, lighter car, good, the downside is finding that you can only buy cars with peasant engines because the six and eight cylinder units have been replaced with blown four pots.

[karl]

The tide does appear to be turning, with several current models lighter than the cars they replaced. Still porky, but less so.

Which ones though mate? I mean in terms of the interesting cars which are affordable to the masses.

370z :cooldude: