The largest Civic Type R club forum

[raffopj]

get a vuvuzella(or however the hell ya spell it) get a mate to sit on the front of the car and hey presto.................

[Superbully]

get a vuvzella(or however the hell ya spell it)

:scratch: :vconf:

[raffopj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuvuzela

sorry vuvuzela

[bornlucky1]

this thread is dead.

[mjhamilton]

this thread is dead.

I think it was 'still born'.......... :thumbup:

[mc36155]

I'm going to make this even simpler, today i will be inflating my spare tyre to 100psi and running a hosepipe from the valve, through the car and into my engine intake - i'll let you know how i get on :salut:

but seriously, it will never work and i'll explain the reason. Pressure and flow are not equal. Ever had one of those cheap electric tyre compressors from halfords etc? they (the better ones at least) have a peak of 150psi yet it takes six or seven minutes to blow up a car tyre from flat with one. You go to a garage that fits tyres and use theyre 150psi compressor and it will blow the tyre up in under a minute, this is because although the pressure is the same the air is going through at a much faster speed (flow).
Imagine trying to piss into a pint glass through a garden hose, - now imagine pissing into your glass through a straw, your still pissing at the same pressure but the hose will fill your glass much faster :salut:

An air horn doesnt have anywhere near enough airflow to feed an engine :thumbup:

not going through faster just more of it going through at the same speed assuming its at the same pressure. im not sure, but wouldnt the gauge of line going in to the valve have to be the same as it wouldnt fit else? more likley that the cheap one has a maximum of 150 psi but due to its small capacity runs out of go quickly and needs "recharging" due to its low stock of air, the one at the garage with large capacity probably could do loads of tyres without loosing pressure. so on average the air will be travelling faster using the gaurage compressor, but only becuse on average it is operating at a much higher pressure.

[rossi82]

Proper double hands on head moment there mate, this seriosly is an example of why you should have a first clue of what you're going on about before you start thinkin about s**t like this, the garage compressor has a tank about the size of a full grown pig to store pressurized air in to deliver constant flow, the compressor simply keeps this topped up. Just accept the fact that it's beyond your knowledge and leave it!!!

[Gravy]

In order to supercharge a CTR engine up to the top end of the rev range, you would need to supply air at a flow rate of over 150 litres per second. That is just over what the engine would draw in, if purely normally-aspirated.
To supercharge the CTR to 300bhp, would require an air flow of over 200 litres per second.
(Ball park figures, obv and doesn't take into account variations in temp/pressure.)
That's a whole lot of air! In fact by the time your ECU had responded to the increased flow, your workshop compressor bottle would already be empty.

For further info, look up Boyle's law, Charles' law, the steady flow energy equation and Bernoulli :thumbup:
... or just have a look HERE for a decent-but-not-too-technical explanation of supercharging.
Some more interesting info HERE

Oh, and give the guy a break, peeps. It's obviously not his field. He's just exploring a chain of thought.
There are no stupid questions!

[mc36155]

Proper double hands on head moment there mate, this seriosly is an example of why you should have a first clue of what you're going on about before you start thinkin about s**t like this, the garage compressor has a tank about the size of a full grown pig to store pressurized air in to deliver constant flow, the compressor simply keeps this topped up. Just accept the fact that it's beyond your knowledge and leave it!!!

is that targeted at me?

[rossi82]

Proper double hands on head moment there mate, this seriosly is an example of why you should have a first clue of what you're going on about before you start thinkin about s**t like this, the garage compressor has a tank about the size of a full grown pig to store pressurized air in to deliver constant flow, the compressor simply keeps this topped up. Just accept the fact that it's beyond your knowledge and leave it!!!

is that targeted at me?

I'm afraid so, was a bit pissed when I wrote that and thought you were the author of the thread

[mjhamilton]

this thread is dead and should be locked asap

.. in the meantime here is some humour

[bornlucky1]

I'm going to make this even simpler, today i will be inflating my spare tyre to 100psi and running a hosepipe from the valve, through the car and into my engine intake - i'll let you know how i get on :salut:

but seriously, it will never work and i'll explain the reason. Pressure and flow are not equal. Ever had one of those cheap electric tyre compressors from halfords etc? they (the better ones at least) have a peak of 150psi yet it takes six or seven minutes to blow up a car tyre from flat with one. You go to a garage that fits tyres and use theyre 150psi compressor and it will blow the tyre up in under a minute, this is because although the pressure is the same the air is going through at a much faster speed (flow).
Imagine trying to piss into a pint glass through a garden hose, - now imagine pissing into your glass through a straw, your still pissing at the same pressure but the hose will fill your glass much faster :salut:

An air horn doesnt have anywhere near enough airflow to feed an engine :thumbup:

not going through faster just more of it going through at the same speed assuming its at the same pressure. im not sure, but wouldnt the gauge of line going in to the valve have to be the same as it wouldnt fit else? more likley that the cheap one has a maximum of 150 psi but due to its small capacity runs out of go quickly and needs "recharging" due to its low stock of air, the one at the garage with large capacity probably could do loads of tyres without loosing pressure. so on average the air will be travelling faster using the gaurage compressor, but only becuse on average it is operating at a much higher pressure.

Thats a load of bollox right there mate, my garage compessor is actually set low (about 60psi) for spray painting, it will still blow a tyre up much quicker than a 150 psi electronic pump. Its to do with flow and very little to do with pressure.
Another pressure/flow comparison is our commercial pressure washer which will put out 550 litres of water per hour at 130 bar. A hald descent domestic pressure washer will put out 130 bar of pressure but will only flow half as much water in an hour, typically 3 - 400 litres in an hour.

its all to do with the size of hole your venting the air/water/whatever out of. the volume and flow will determine the pressure.

[mc36155]

I'm going to make this even simpler, today i will be inflating my spare tyre to 100psi and running a hosepipe from the valve, through the car and into my engine intake - i'll let you know how i get on :salut:

but seriously, it will never work and i'll explain the reason. Pressure and flow are not equal. Ever had one of those cheap electric tyre compressors from halfords etc? they (the better ones at least) have a peak of 150psi yet it takes six or seven minutes to blow up a car tyre from flat with one. You go to a garage that fits tyres and use theyre 150psi compressor and it will blow the tyre up in under a minute, this is because although the pressure is the same the air is going through at a much faster speed (flow).
Imagine trying to piss into a pint glass through a garden hose, - now imagine pissing into your glass through a straw, your still pissing at the same pressure but the hose will fill your glass much faster :salut:

An air horn doesnt have anywhere near enough airflow to feed an engine :thumbup:

not going through faster just more of it going through at the same speed assuming its at the same pressure. im not sure, but wouldnt the gauge of line going in to the valve have to be the same as it wouldnt fit else? more likley that the cheap one has a maximum of 150 psi but due to its small capacity runs out of go quickly and needs "recharging" due to its low stock of air, the one at the garage with large capacity probably could do loads of tyres without loosing pressure. so on average the air will be travelling faster using the gaurage compressor, but only becuse on average it is operating at a much higher pressure.

Thats a load of bollox right there mate, my garage compessor is actually set low (about 60psi) for spray painting, it will still blow a tyre up much quicker than a 150 psi electronic pump. Its to do with flow and very little to do with pressure.
Another pressure/flow comparison is our commercial pressure washer which will put out 550 litres of water per hour at 130 bar. A hald descent domestic pressure washer will put out 130 bar of pressure but will only flow half as much water in an hour, typically 3 - 400 litres in an hour.

its all to do with the size of hole your venting the air/water/whatever out of. the volume and flow will determine the pressure.

second time lucky, the water is not exiting the pipe "faster" as you previously intimated (unless you want to discuss wall effect) it is merely that the pipe is fatter and therefore has a higher capacity due to the increase in cross sectional area of the pipe. my point was that you have to use the same gauge pipe, thickness, whatever, to connect it to the valve on your tyre else it would not fit, and assuming this is correct, and that that valve and length of hose provides the same resistance, then the speed and rate of flow would be the same at the 150 psi wether you are using the garage compressor or the halfords one. The only thing left to explain why the garage one fills the tyre more quickly is that the garage compressor has a much higher stock of air at that pressure, and thus filling one tyre will have little impact given its large reserve. The small compressor will have a much smaller capacity and will probably run low half way through filling up the tyre and will have to restock, which is why you hear the compressor kick in. so at the start they are filling up the tyre at the same rate, the smaller capicity compressor then runs out at a faster rate than the larger one and therefor over the period that it is filling the tyre on average runs at alower pressure than the garage one.

[rossi82]

In other words it would be rediculous to think that an air horn could supply enough air at a high enough pressure to enhance a K20's performance!

[karl]

no, it's ridiculous

[rossi82]

doh!

[bornlucky1]

I'm going to make this even simpler, today i will be inflating my spare tyre to 100psi and running a hosepipe from the valve, through the car and into my engine intake - i'll let you know how i get on :salut:

but seriously, it will never work and i'll explain the reason. Pressure and flow are not equal. Ever had one of those cheap electric tyre compressors from halfords etc? they (the better ones at least) have a peak of 150psi yet it takes six or seven minutes to blow up a car tyre from flat with one. You go to a garage that fits tyres and use theyre 150psi compressor and it will blow the tyre up in under a minute, this is because although the pressure is the same the air is going through at a much faster speed (flow).
Imagine trying to piss into a pint glass through a garden hose, - now imagine pissing into your glass through a straw, your still pissing at the same pressure but the hose will fill your glass much faster :salut:

An air horn doesnt have anywhere near enough airflow to feed an engine :thumbup:

not going through faster just more of it going through at the same speed assuming its at the same pressure. im not sure, but wouldnt the gauge of line going in to the valve have to be the same as it wouldnt fit else? more likley that the cheap one has a maximum of 150 psi but due to its small capacity runs out of go quickly and needs "recharging" due to its low stock of air, the one at the garage with large capacity probably could do loads of tyres without loosing pressure. so on average the air will be travelling faster using the gaurage compressor, but only becuse on average it is operating at a much higher pressure.

Thats a load of bollox right there mate, my garage compessor is actually set low (about 60psi) for spray painting, it will still blow a tyre up much quicker than a 150 psi electronic pump. Its to do with flow and very little to do with pressure.
Another pressure/flow comparison is our commercial pressure washer which will put out 550 litres of water per hour at 130 bar. A hald descent domestic pressure washer will put out 130 bar of pressure but will only flow half as much water in an hour, typically 3 - 400 litres in an hour.

its all to do with the size of hole your venting the air/water/whatever out of. the volume and flow will determine the pressure.

second time lucky, the water is not exiting the pipe "faster" as you previously intimated (unless you want to discuss wall effect) it is merely that the pipe is fatter and therefore has a higher capacity due to the increase in cross sectional area of the pipe. my point was that you have to use the same gauge pipe, thickness, whatever, to connect it to the valve on your tyre else it would not fit, and assuming this is correct, and that that valve and length of hose provides the same resistance, then the speed and rate of flow would be the same at the 150 psi wether you are using the garage compressor or the halfords one. The only thing left to explain why the garage one fills the tyre more quickly is that the garage compressor has a much higher stock of air at that pressure, and thus filling one tyre will have little impact given its large reserve. The small compressor will have a much smaller capacity and will probably run low half way through filling up the tyre and will have to restock, which is why you hear the compressor kick in. so at the start they are filling up the tyre at the same rate, the smaller capicity compressor then runs out at a faster rate than the larger one and therefor over the period that it is filling the tyre on average runs at alower pressure than the garage one.

Thats the point i was trying to make in simple terms in my original post about pissing through a straw A large hose will flow more air than a small one for any given pressure.

[rossi82]

Thats the point i was trying to make in simple terms in my original post about pissing through a straw A large hose will flow more air than a small one for any given pressure.

That would be a funnel effect for you wouldn't it???

[arjelou06]

Well, now we got the point of you. Pressure and flow are really not equal. And there will be a problem if it had an insufficient air. You've made a great explanation bornlucky.

[Mart]

Looks like the straw analogy is coming out again.

A human can take a breath, blow through a straw as hard as possible and while flowing very little air, can create pressure for a short period of time, for arguments sake 10psi. The human then needs to take another breath of air before it can blow again.
A 10psi rated turbo can obviously create the same pressure as the human, but through a drain pipe and constantly. The difference in volume of air despite the same pressure is massive. Maybe 1000 times more volume of air at the same pressure
Funnily enough these small air compressors actually work very similar to a human. They take in a breath of air and either blow it out at 10psi through a straw sized pipe, or over a short periods of time compress it with another breath of air to increase presssure to 20psi. So on and so forth. The only reason they can create pressure is just like the human in that it's blowing through a pipe with a small diameter, but that's only 1/1000 volume of air required and not constant either. You would need 2000 of them compressors working in staggered setups. The first 1000 blow, while the second 1000 charge up, then they switch. That would then give the same volume of air as the turbo and constantly.
Where are you going to put 2000 air compressors that weigh 1Kg each and power them?
The end.