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Those Complete Power Boosting & Drivetrain Mods..
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User avatar
By mezmo
#3850749
I am aware that final drives offer no extra bhp, naturally, however, would a final drive offer more real world (road only) performance than a set of drop in cams in terms of performance per £?

Looking to have a diff put in soon so I thought I'd get the final drive done at the same time.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, would you notice better in gear acceleration with a set of drop in cams, or a final drive?

Cheers guys
User avatar
By mc36155
#3850768
Probably final drive, it will obviously also act across the whole rev range rather than a specific band of rpm. If you are having the box opened anyway then its the cheap option too
User avatar
By mezmo
#3850788
Thanks guys. What would be the best one to go for? What are the pros and cons of different final drives. Would want one that doesn't render the first two gears useless, but comes on strong from third gear upwards. Cheers
User avatar
By wHAmEz
#3850809
I would say 5.1 final drive then. From what I've seen the 5.4 and upwards are pretty viscous for road use.
User avatar
By D4Z3D
#3850829
I am running 217 WBHP with a 5.1 and i struggle with traction in 1st and 2nd gear in the dry. To get the best benefits in both low and high gears, get the 5.1 with a JDM 4th and 5th gears. This way you can still use the lower gears (just) and get the extra torque in the higher gears :)
User avatar
By mc36155
#3850835
D4Z3D wrote:I am running 217 WBHP with a 5.1 and i struggle with traction in 1st and 2nd gear in the dry. To get the best benefits in both low and high gears, get the 5.1 with a JDM 4th and 5th gears. This way you can still use the lower gears (just) and get the extra torque in the higher gears :)
this
User avatar
By mezmo
#3850847
mc36155 wrote:
D4Z3D wrote:I am running 217 WBHP with a 5.1 and i struggle with traction in 1st and 2nd gear in the dry. To get the best benefits in both low and high gears, get the 5.1 with a JDM 4th and 5th gears. This way you can still use the lower gears (just) and get the extra torque in the higher gears :)
this
What sort of flywheel hp is that roughly?

Is it that hard to deploy and kind of power in 2nd gear? 1st doesn't bother me in the slightest cause I never do sprint starts anyway.

And does it make a big difference in 3rd gear upwards?

Thanks guys, appreciated.
User avatar
By D4Z3D
#3850869
The thing about final drives is they have the same affect in all gears at all engine speeds. You get an 8% (5.1) or 16% (5.46) increase in torque across the entire rev range in every gear. My engine is a really strong one putting out around 255 - 260 bhp at the fly and a huge wallop of torque in the mid range that breaks traction in 1st and second. I have been drag racing at crail a fair bit and always struggle with getting away from the line cleanly. At knockhill coming out of the second gear hairpin i can get both wheels fully lit, even with warm semi slicks and an M factory Helical LSD. Here is some video evidence of what i am talking about:

Drag Racing 1st and 2nd gear wheelspin:



Second gear wheelspin out of Knockhill hairpin:



I wouldn't want to go lower than this in terms of FD so i can still use 1st and 2nd, but getting the JDM 4th 5th gearset will give you a nice boost in the mid range also.

I should say that i use 215/45 semi slicks which naturally raise the gearing, if you put huge 235's on you would get the benefit of using a 5.3 or 5.46 FD as the larger rolling radius of the tyres naturally opposed the lowering of the FD, and you will have more grip to put the power down.

Hope this Helps
User avatar
By mc36155
#3850895
having the 5.1 fd and the jdm 4, 5, 6 puts those last gears somewhere close to having a 5.4 fd and stock 4, 5, 6. calcs put it an effective 5.35 fd for those gears
User avatar
By mezmo
#3850896
Thanks guys. My knowledge is limited around FD's. So basically a 5.1 is the one to go for, but with JDM 4,5 and 6?

Why would this be different to having a 5.1fd but all on oem?

Thanks
User avatar
By kinky_boy
#3850900
it depends where you are using it, i am on 5.1 with stock gears except tsx long 6th and i find the setup pretty good. The jdm 4th and 5th will be useful on a big track where you could get some serious speed, otherwise on short tracks and twisty roads you will use 2-3-4 so not that much of a help with 5 and 6th gear.
User avatar
By D4Z3D
#3850903
mezmo wrote:Thanks guys. My knowledge is limited around FD's. So basically a 5.1 is the one to go for, but with JDM 4,5 and 6?

Why would this be different to having a 5.1fd but all on oem?

Thanks
So i am running 5.1 with stock gears, so all the same separation between the gears at OEM , but all the gears are lowered by the same amount. These ratios are perfect for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear as you can get just about get traction with a full bolt on engine. To me 4th , 5th still feel pretty long, you can do around 105 mph in 4th and 125 in 5th, with 6th being a motorway cruising gear ( around 158 mph max). The JDM 4th and 5th are lower than the EUDM one, so if you put them in, you have the same 1st 2nd and 3rd, with a lower 4th and 5th. The end result is a nice close ratio 5 speed box, with a 6th gear overdrive for the motorway. This will suit most track work, here is a vid of a guy with this set up:




If you just buy a mega low FD, say 5.4, all your gears are lowered even further than the 5.1, meaning traction will be an issue in 1st and 2nd, while 3rd 4th and 5th will be good. Here is a vid of a 5.46 FD:


User avatar
By petrolted
#3851094
My EP3 has 310bhp at the flywheel and I've put in a 5:47 FD with an Accord 6th gear which takes 6th almost back to standard gear ratio. It's also got an MFactory helical LSD with race pack pinion gear (highly recommend that upgrade). 1st gear as you'd expect is not good but with decent tyres yoko AD08r 2nd gear onwards it's very very responsive - if I was doing it again I'd honestly go with this same set up. Before making my mind up what ratio to go for I didn't want it too low but I didn't want to regret not going low enough if you see what I mean, so 5:47 + LSD with race pack is so good. Stevie at Grinspeed supplied and fitted mine last June and I can't recommend him highly enough. Do it and you won't have any regrets, if you're local to me I'm happy to take you out in mine so you can see what it's like - I've got some silverstone track footage of it, basically it now hits 100mph at the limiter in 4th and 130mph in 5th which it hits on the short straight on the national cuircuit at silverstone.

Added in 7 minutes 49 seconds:


Added in 5 minutes 18 seconds:
here is a link to a clip at silverstone......
User avatar
By godfridge
#3854260
D4Z3D wrote:
mezmo wrote:Thanks guys. My knowledge is limited around FD's. So basically a 5.1 is the one to go for, but with JDM 4,5 and 6?

Why would this be different to having a 5.1fd but all on oem?

Thanks
What's your times at Crail?

So i am running 5.1 with stock gears, so all the same separation between the gears at OEM , but all the gears are lowered by the same amount. These ratios are perfect for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear as you can get just about get traction with a full bolt on engine. To me 4th , 5th still feel pretty long, you can do around 105 mph in 4th and 125 in 5th, with 6th being a motorway cruising gear ( around 158 mph max). The JDM 4th and 5th are lower than the EUDM one, so if you put them in, you have the same 1st 2nd and 3rd, with a lower 4th and 5th. The end result is a nice close ratio 5 speed box, with a 6th gear overdrive for the motorway. This will suit most track work, here is a vid of a guy with this set up:




If you just buy a mega low FD, say 5.4, all your gears are lowered even further than the 5.1, meaning traction will be an issue in 1st and 2nd, while 3rd 4th and 5th will be good. Here is a vid of a 5.46 FD:




What's your Crail times?
User avatar
By D4Z3D
#3854655
godfridge wrote:What's your Crail times?
When i had 226 bhp i did a 14.68 at crail, i have since got a lot more power (217WHP) but i have only been up once this season to crail and it was really cold. I only managed a 14.88 with a passenger :lol: , although terminal speed was 102 mph though so i recon if i got a warm day i would be able to run in the low to mid 14's. I might go again at the end of the season but i have a couple of track days to do first (Japfest included :D).

Long time ago I had and Ep3 for 220k kilometers in[…]